Justin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8770322.stm
Wednesday, 30 June 2010
Tuesday, 29 June 2010
Red Mist Part 3
Justin: I originally just set out to respond primarily to the text I received saying Alonso was a crap driver and that he was spouting crap. I believe I quashed both these points with a reasoned, if slightly bias ;-), arguement.
Now my co-blogger has responded too, and again this leaves me with a sense of needing to respond. Andrew Benson himself (king blogger who we should all look up to) says that if Lewis hadnt hesitated then perhaps Alonso would have been able to get past the safety car before it fully emerged, so, he perhaps wouldnt have ended up 9th whatever the outcome of Lewis and his shennanigans.
"If Hamilton had simply carried on flat out, he - and perhaps Alonso, too - would have passed the Mercedes before it crossed the safety car line and there would have been no problem".
Having addressed that one and batted it out of the park...ok its a "perhaps" but still, I dont fully believe that Alonso would have ended up in 9th whatever the scenario. Anyway, having addressed that one, what my co-blogger doesnt realise is that yours truly was online on our blog site whilst he was blogging yesterday and I saw the first title he thought of using ;-).
I must stress that I am an Alonso fan, not a Ferarri fan. Surely thats obvious with all my Massa bashing. Speaking of Massa, Martin Brundle commented that he still doesnt think he is the same Massa as the pre-spring in the head Massa of last year.
Now my co-blogger has responded too, and again this leaves me with a sense of needing to respond. Andrew Benson himself (king blogger who we should all look up to) says that if Lewis hadnt hesitated then perhaps Alonso would have been able to get past the safety car before it fully emerged, so, he perhaps wouldnt have ended up 9th whatever the outcome of Lewis and his shennanigans.
"If Hamilton had simply carried on flat out, he - and perhaps Alonso, too - would have passed the Mercedes before it crossed the safety car line and there would have been no problem".
Having addressed that one and batted it out of the park...ok its a "perhaps" but still, I dont fully believe that Alonso would have ended up in 9th whatever the scenario. Anyway, having addressed that one, what my co-blogger doesnt realise is that yours truly was online on our blog site whilst he was blogging yesterday and I saw the first title he thought of using ;-).
I must stress that I am an Alonso fan, not a Ferarri fan. Surely thats obvious with all my Massa bashing. Speaking of Massa, Martin Brundle commented that he still doesnt think he is the same Massa as the pre-spring in the head Massa of last year.
Monday, 28 June 2010
Red mist, part deux
Phil: I'm afraid I've always had very little sympathy for sportsmen who lose and then blame the referees, stewards or other officials for not interpreting the rules in their favour. I'd say the same applies to anyone who seriously thinks England might have beaten Germany but for 'that' goal.
Now, in this case, I'm going to let Alonso off for in-cockpit whingeing about Hamilton, because we all know drivers know the FIA listen in to their cockpit radio and use it as a 'back channel' for communicating directly with the stewards. I'm also going to ignore whatever he may have said post-race as I haven't seen any interviews with him.
However, the fact remains that if Hamilton had not overtaken the safety car, Alonso would still have been eighth. It wouldn't have made any difference to Alonso's race had Hamilton not overtaken the safety car, and it would only have promoted him one place had the FIA applied the strongest possible penalty and disqualified him (and I admit I was a little surprised that only a drive-through penalty had been applied). The fact that other drivers ahead of Alonso who did infringe the safety car regulations were penalised as a result, with the result that Alonso actually gained one place after the race, seems to have been completely overlooked.
As my co-blogger has admitted, for a driver who still considers Singapore 2008 to be a morally legitimate race win to make such a drama about something that in the final event wouldn't actually have affected his race position at all, is a little rich.
Ferrari have the third best car at the moment. Perhaps they need to do more about that rather than expecting the FIA (and you know what those initials mean) to ride to their rescue.
Now, in this case, I'm going to let Alonso off for in-cockpit whingeing about Hamilton, because we all know drivers know the FIA listen in to their cockpit radio and use it as a 'back channel' for communicating directly with the stewards. I'm also going to ignore whatever he may have said post-race as I haven't seen any interviews with him.
However, the fact remains that if Hamilton had not overtaken the safety car, Alonso would still have been eighth. It wouldn't have made any difference to Alonso's race had Hamilton not overtaken the safety car, and it would only have promoted him one place had the FIA applied the strongest possible penalty and disqualified him (and I admit I was a little surprised that only a drive-through penalty had been applied). The fact that other drivers ahead of Alonso who did infringe the safety car regulations were penalised as a result, with the result that Alonso actually gained one place after the race, seems to have been completely overlooked.
As my co-blogger has admitted, for a driver who still considers Singapore 2008 to be a morally legitimate race win to make such a drama about something that in the final event wouldn't actually have affected his race position at all, is a little rich.
Ferrari have the third best car at the moment. Perhaps they need to do more about that rather than expecting the FIA (and you know what those initials mean) to ride to their rescue.
Red Mist
Justin: Well, first up, once again apologies for my slightly late blog. My ever popular co-blogger did his blogging well though and more than made up for my lack of blog until now ;-).
You know it. I'm going to start with the guy driving through a seething red mist. Fernando Alonso. This blogger received a rather unfair text saying he was a crap driver and spouting crap in the interviews afterwards. Me thinks this was half said to try and wind me up but also half because the texter actually believes this.
Let me address this issue now. What Hamilton did, knowingly or unknowingly (as much as I hate Hamilton I suspect it was the latter) WAS unfair on Alonso. Until that point Fernando was gaining on Lewis and was setting fastest laps and it was looking like a total dingdong battle between Vettel, Lewis and Fernando. Andrew Benson makes some interesting remarks here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/06/post.html
I think, given the radio communications that we heard, that what made Alonso descend into the red mist was the fact that it took the FIA 20 minutes or so to do anything about what had happened, by which point a drive through penalty had no effect on the placing of Hamilton and the damage the incident had caused to Alonso's race.
"Where was he? And where is he now?" we heard an irate Alonso yell into his headset. The answer came back "He was second and he still is second Fernando". Oh dear. Red mist descends and Alonso drives like a man possessed and starts overdriving and eventually getting impatient and cocking things up in the last couple of laps.
My co-blogger said there was a lot of bad blood between Alonso and Hamilton, which is true. But I suspect if you replace Hamilton with any other driver, Alonso would still have reacted in the same manner - it just added more of an edge given that it was Hamilton.
The utter frustration boiling over in the cockpit - you have car updates, you know your car is good enough to fight for a podium at least, you need the championship points, fans all over the world and indeed in your home race are urging you on, and the chance to fight is unfairly swept away by a safety car incident. It's the Latino Heat!
Given the Ferrari is clearly the third best car on the grid, Alonso has been mega in actually managing to stay anywhere near the title fight - just look at Massa in the same car! So, Alonso isnt a crap driver and he was spouting utter, utter frustration at the situation in the race.
But now of course, you could say the extra points he gained in the after race shuffle could be crucial in his championship...but...you could also say now that he is more than a race win away from top spot, which halfway through the season isnt looking as good as it was.
Mark Webber - fuck me what a crash! He was cool as a cucumber afterwards though. Does anything ruffle his feathers???!!! Does anyone know what he got such a crap start though and found himself down the field like that? Come on Mark - you are supposedly fighting for the title...get on with it man!!
I believe my esteemed colleague neglected to name his skiver of the day. I'm going to name Heinz Harald Frentzen - never did like him anyway, and given he was the fourth steward and they took forever to even bother looking into Hamilton's safety car shennanigans, then he is my skiver of the day!
Michael Shumacher - go home! You are cack mate!
Good to see Williams once again up there fighting for points and with good grid positions. Heres hoping they can push on from this a bit!
Oh and yes readers, and co blogger, I shouldnt say TOO much about Fernando and safety cars as one incident worked out pretty well for him not so long ago (has to be said, Piquet cheating aside he doesnt have much luck with the safety car at all).
You know it. I'm going to start with the guy driving through a seething red mist. Fernando Alonso. This blogger received a rather unfair text saying he was a crap driver and spouting crap in the interviews afterwards. Me thinks this was half said to try and wind me up but also half because the texter actually believes this.
Let me address this issue now. What Hamilton did, knowingly or unknowingly (as much as I hate Hamilton I suspect it was the latter) WAS unfair on Alonso. Until that point Fernando was gaining on Lewis and was setting fastest laps and it was looking like a total dingdong battle between Vettel, Lewis and Fernando. Andrew Benson makes some interesting remarks here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/06/post.html
I think, given the radio communications that we heard, that what made Alonso descend into the red mist was the fact that it took the FIA 20 minutes or so to do anything about what had happened, by which point a drive through penalty had no effect on the placing of Hamilton and the damage the incident had caused to Alonso's race.
"Where was he? And where is he now?" we heard an irate Alonso yell into his headset. The answer came back "He was second and he still is second Fernando". Oh dear. Red mist descends and Alonso drives like a man possessed and starts overdriving and eventually getting impatient and cocking things up in the last couple of laps.
My co-blogger said there was a lot of bad blood between Alonso and Hamilton, which is true. But I suspect if you replace Hamilton with any other driver, Alonso would still have reacted in the same manner - it just added more of an edge given that it was Hamilton.
The utter frustration boiling over in the cockpit - you have car updates, you know your car is good enough to fight for a podium at least, you need the championship points, fans all over the world and indeed in your home race are urging you on, and the chance to fight is unfairly swept away by a safety car incident. It's the Latino Heat!
Given the Ferrari is clearly the third best car on the grid, Alonso has been mega in actually managing to stay anywhere near the title fight - just look at Massa in the same car! So, Alonso isnt a crap driver and he was spouting utter, utter frustration at the situation in the race.
But now of course, you could say the extra points he gained in the after race shuffle could be crucial in his championship...but...you could also say now that he is more than a race win away from top spot, which halfway through the season isnt looking as good as it was.
Mark Webber - fuck me what a crash! He was cool as a cucumber afterwards though. Does anything ruffle his feathers???!!! Does anyone know what he got such a crap start though and found himself down the field like that? Come on Mark - you are supposedly fighting for the title...get on with it man!!
I believe my esteemed colleague neglected to name his skiver of the day. I'm going to name Heinz Harald Frentzen - never did like him anyway, and given he was the fourth steward and they took forever to even bother looking into Hamilton's safety car shennanigans, then he is my skiver of the day!
Michael Shumacher - go home! You are cack mate!
Good to see Williams once again up there fighting for points and with good grid positions. Heres hoping they can push on from this a bit!
Oh and yes readers, and co blogger, I shouldnt say TOO much about Fernando and safety cars as one incident worked out pretty well for him not so long ago (has to be said, Piquet cheating aside he doesnt have much luck with the safety car at all).
Sunday, 27 June 2010
Ouch!
Phil: Well, I think what most people will remember about this race is Mark Webber's crash of the season. It looked painful enough from the trackside camera, and truly terrifying from the in-car camera. What we won't remember is Eddie Jordan becoming momentarily airborne post-race after having received a high-speed shunt from David Coulthard's chin. Admittedly, this didn't actually happen, but discussion between the two of them did become rather heated during the post-race chat, EJ championing the right of drivers of crap cars to get in everyone else's way, and DC....I'm not sure what he was saying, but in the interests of BBC impartiality it's as well to remember he's still on the Red Bull payroll.
My own view is that it can largely be put down to a racing incident, and it's important not to lose sight of the fact that both drivers walked away from a horrendous accident unscathed. It wasn't immediately obvious at the time that Webber was racing Kovalainen for position, Webber having had a dreadful first few laps culminating in a pitstop where his front left wouldn't come off. in fact, you could argue that everything of significance in this race was a direct result of Webber's slow start. The post-race dispute centred on Kovalainen's right to defend his position versus his responsibility to acknowledge that Webber's Red Bull was in reality much faster than his Lotus and that therefore defending too hard might prove disastrous, as in fact it did.
Ironically enough, all of this more or less guaranteed victory for Webber's teammate and rival Sebastian Vettel, whose main rivals were all disadvantaged: Webber crashed, Hamilton received a drive through penalty for overtaking the safety car which had been called out after Webber's crash, and Alonso pitted behind the safety car and dropped to midfield as a result.
This leads me on to the day's other controversy: that Alonso felt that Hamilton's penalty, which cost him any chance of passing Vettel for the lead but didn't lose him a place, was unfair. To my mind, this only stacks up if Hamilton deliberately slowed down in order to back Alonso back into the pack. There's no evidence that he did - it would be obvious from lap times, wouldn't it? - and it's hard to imagine any driver having the mental agility to predict where the pack would be in half a lap's time in order to slow his arch-rival down enough to put him behind them without damaging his own race. The teams and the FIA have to put GPS devices in each car to be able to predict where they all are. There's clearly a huge amount of bad blood between Alonso and Hamilton, particularly on Spanish soil, but I confidently predict we'll hear no more of this particular incident.
A number of cars, including Jenson Button, were actually investigated by the stewards after the race for driving too fast after the safety car was called out but before it could collect the pack, and were penalised five seconds each. There's no change in the provisional results down to seventh place but Alonso leapfrogs Buemi for eighth and there are other changes to what we thought the order was further down the field.
My own view is that it can largely be put down to a racing incident, and it's important not to lose sight of the fact that both drivers walked away from a horrendous accident unscathed. It wasn't immediately obvious at the time that Webber was racing Kovalainen for position, Webber having had a dreadful first few laps culminating in a pitstop where his front left wouldn't come off. in fact, you could argue that everything of significance in this race was a direct result of Webber's slow start. The post-race dispute centred on Kovalainen's right to defend his position versus his responsibility to acknowledge that Webber's Red Bull was in reality much faster than his Lotus and that therefore defending too hard might prove disastrous, as in fact it did.
Ironically enough, all of this more or less guaranteed victory for Webber's teammate and rival Sebastian Vettel, whose main rivals were all disadvantaged: Webber crashed, Hamilton received a drive through penalty for overtaking the safety car which had been called out after Webber's crash, and Alonso pitted behind the safety car and dropped to midfield as a result.
This leads me on to the day's other controversy: that Alonso felt that Hamilton's penalty, which cost him any chance of passing Vettel for the lead but didn't lose him a place, was unfair. To my mind, this only stacks up if Hamilton deliberately slowed down in order to back Alonso back into the pack. There's no evidence that he did - it would be obvious from lap times, wouldn't it? - and it's hard to imagine any driver having the mental agility to predict where the pack would be in half a lap's time in order to slow his arch-rival down enough to put him behind them without damaging his own race. The teams and the FIA have to put GPS devices in each car to be able to predict where they all are. There's clearly a huge amount of bad blood between Alonso and Hamilton, particularly on Spanish soil, but I confidently predict we'll hear no more of this particular incident.
A number of cars, including Jenson Button, were actually investigated by the stewards after the race for driving too fast after the safety car was called out but before it could collect the pack, and were penalised five seconds each. There's no change in the provisional results down to seventh place but Alonso leapfrogs Buemi for eighth and there are other changes to what we thought the order was further down the field.
Saturday, 26 June 2010
Almost forgot to give it a title!
Phil: Welcome to the Grand Prix They Couldn't Think of a Half Decent Name For, sometimes known as Valencia, Europe, or even the other Spanish Grand Prix. Which brings me straight to my point: how much will the home team be worth to Alonso? I'm guessing my co-blogger blogged before quali (he likes nothing better than a nice log blog in the morning), as Ferrari's new double diffuser put Alonso and Massa 'only' fourth and fifth on the grid respectively, behind Vettel, Webber and Hamilton.
Further down the grid, both Renaults and both Williams have outqualified both Mercedes, with Rosberg a disappointing 12th and Schumacher a hopeless 15th (but then I probably over-indulged in Schumi-bashing in Canada, so am going to leave him alone this time, unless he makes me do something). If a move by Kubica from Renault to Mercedes was on the cards before today, he should think very carefully before taking the offer up, particularly as he is clearly undisputed team leader at Renault, and would have a serious rival in Rosberg at Mercedes. But I don't think it's anything more than idle speculation.
Finally, I really think Jacques Villeneuve ought to be 110% exploring the limits of comedy facial hair, fannying about on the guitar and even having another crack at Le Mans before he explores even 1% of getting back in an F1 car.
Further down the grid, both Renaults and both Williams have outqualified both Mercedes, with Rosberg a disappointing 12th and Schumacher a hopeless 15th (but then I probably over-indulged in Schumi-bashing in Canada, so am going to leave him alone this time, unless he makes me do something). If a move by Kubica from Renault to Mercedes was on the cards before today, he should think very carefully before taking the offer up, particularly as he is clearly undisputed team leader at Renault, and would have a serious rival in Rosberg at Mercedes. But I don't think it's anything more than idle speculation.
Finally, I really think Jacques Villeneuve ought to be 110% exploring the limits of comedy facial hair, fannying about on the guitar and even having another crack at Le Mans before he explores even 1% of getting back in an F1 car.
Valencia Baby!!
Justin: These are exciting times. Ferrari have a host of updates to their car, one of which apparently is a new rear end which isn't entirely unlike that of the Red Bull. Maclaren and others are worried about this as it is thought to be worth half a second a lap.
That's probably one of the reasons that Fernando is top of the time sheets in the European GP practice sessions! Get in! Now the title fight truly hots up again as one of the leading drivers in F1 rises to the top once again.
Oh and with reference to my co-bloggers comments on possible comebacks, I actually agree 120%. But, when did Villeneuve ever take note of what others did or thought? He's his own man and I expect him to pursue a comeback 110% whilst exploring the limits of the car.
A couple of interesting links here - the first is the BBC's Jonathon Leggard:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanlegard/2010/06/ferrari-up-the-ante-in-title-b.html
The BBC rumour column (which sometimes granted is total bluff):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8761229.stm
I half agree with Penske and what he says. The drivers need to be the stars, but then a guy from Indy Car would never understand that F1 is the technological pinacle and indeed ultimate pinnacle in motorsport!
Whats this? Kubica rumours to Mercedes to replace the happless Schumi?????
Right then, to quali we go!!!!!
That's probably one of the reasons that Fernando is top of the time sheets in the European GP practice sessions! Get in! Now the title fight truly hots up again as one of the leading drivers in F1 rises to the top once again.
Oh and with reference to my co-bloggers comments on possible comebacks, I actually agree 120%. But, when did Villeneuve ever take note of what others did or thought? He's his own man and I expect him to pursue a comeback 110% whilst exploring the limits of the car.
A couple of interesting links here - the first is the BBC's Jonathon Leggard:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanlegard/2010/06/ferrari-up-the-ante-in-title-b.html
The BBC rumour column (which sometimes granted is total bluff):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8761229.stm
I half agree with Penske and what he says. The drivers need to be the stars, but then a guy from Indy Car would never understand that F1 is the technological pinacle and indeed ultimate pinnacle in motorsport!
Whats this? Kubica rumours to Mercedes to replace the happless Schumi?????
Right then, to quali we go!!!!!
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